In Your Nature Ep 54 - Global Birdfair 2024

This episode of In Your Nature comes from across the pond as Niall records from the 2024 Global Bird Fair in Rutland, United Kingdom. Known to many as "Glastonbury for birders", the Global Bird Fair sees conservation organisations, photographers, authors, artists ecotourism companies and many more join together to celebrate their shared love of birds. Over a July weekend, attendees are treated to a jam-packed schedule of talks, workshops, film screenings and other events, all themed around birds and wildlife conservation.

This year, Niall took the opportunity to interview some of the interesting birders that he met at the event. This includes Chief Executive of BirdLife International, Martin Harper, who spoke about the impact that the Global Bird Fair has made on conservation projects worldwide owing to the fundraising element of the event. He also caught up with Head of Communications and Awareness at the Hellenic Ornithological Society/ BirdLife Greece, Roula Trigou. She likens the Global Bird Fair to an annual family gathering, where people who are fighting for the same cause join together. For her, the event perfectly illustrates how birds connect our world. Laura Kammermeier from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology also took some time to speak with Niall about Cornell's many inspiring and educational initiatives including the highly popular Merlin Bird ID app, as well as Birds of the World – a subscription-based online resource and the world’s largest, most comprehensive, scholarly resource for birds.

Meanwhile, Rachel Bigsby is looking at birds from a different perspective, quite literally. The wildlife photographer spoke with Niall about how events like the Global Bird Fair can help new photographers get to grips with techniques and ethics, while she also reveals the Northern Fulmar as the seabird that kickstarted her passion for photography.

No matter where you travel to, you're almost guaranteed to bump into someone else from Ireland and the Global Bird Fair is no exception! Niall caught up with ornithologist Seán Ronayne of Irish Wildlife Sounds to talk about his early days of sound recording, a hobby that has since led to his highly-regarded documentary, Birdsong, album Wild Silence and a soon-to-be-released book, Nature Boy.

In keeping with tradition, Niall and Ricky choose a Bird of the Week and of course, they couldn't do an episode on the Global Bird Fair without mentioning the event's emblem, the Osprey.

In Your Nature features Ricky Whelan, Biodiversity Officer with Offaly County Council and Niall Hatch of BirdWatch Ireland and is edited by Ann-Marie Kelly. The series is supported by Laois, Offaly, and Westmeath County Councils, The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Heritage Council.

For more about BirdWatch Ireland, visit www.birdwatchireland.ie.

Transcript

in-your-nature-ep-54-global-birdfair-2024

Ricky Whelan: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to In Your Nature podcast with me, Ricky Whelan, biodiversity officer with Offaly County Council. 

Niall Hatch: And me, Niall Hatch, the head of communications and development in Birdwatch Ireland. Great to be chatting to you again, Ricky, and great to have people listening to us when we're nattering on about birds as usual.

Ricky Whelan: This series is supported by Laois, Offaly and Westmeath County Councils, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and the Heritage Council. And it's edited by Anne Marie Kelly. So, yeah, now you've been away on your travels. I'm quite jealous. We've had a few firsts. We had our, our first live to an audience episode, of course, that we recorded at Wild Mind during the summer.

And now we have our first internationally recorded podcast because you were away over in Rutland in the UK for the famous amongst birders, Rutland Bird Fair. 

Niall Hatch: The bird fair, the Global Bird Fair, to give it its very grandiose title. It's been going in various incarnations for the last 35 years in Rutland in the English Midlands.

And it's a real Mecca for [00:01:00] birdwatchers and conservationists. And anybody with any kind of interest in wildlife, it really is a one stop shop for all of that. It's getting bigger and bigger all the time, and it raises and donates a huge amount of money to conservation projects all around the world. It's really interesting as well, because, you know, I go there most years because I have meetings with various people.

BirdLife International partner organizations, partners at Birdwatch Ireland there, catch up with old friends. It's great for sharing information. It's just absolutely wonderful. And it's an interesting place. Rutland, for those who don't know, because a lot of people outside England, or even maybe within England, don't know where Rutland is.

It's really bang in the centre of England. I sometimes joke that they chose it for the Global Bird Fair because it's equally awkward to get to from everywhere in Britain, let alone from Ireland. Rutland has the distinction of being the smallest county in England. at low tide because at high tide the Isle of Wight is that little bit smaller because it loses on its coastline.

Rutland itself is about as far away from the sea as you could get. So it's, yeah, probably the closest, closest large city or town people would have heard of would be [00:02:00] Peterborough. Now that's still a bit of a trek. So that's sort of Peterborough, Leicester, Peterborough, Nottingham, that kind of area, that part of England.

Anyway, it's this massive big thing. You turn up in tiny little Rutland and there's this big extravaganza going on with birds and conservation organisations. And it's, it's really been fun to see. So yeah, I certainly really enjoyed my visit, Ricky. 

Ricky Whelan: Yeah, totally, totally. And I mean, there is, I mean, there's good reason why the site was chosen there.

And in that, it is on the banks of, of Rutland water, is it not, where there is, I suppose, a famous osprey conservation project ongoing for many years there too. So, and, and the Osprey is the emblem, if you like, of the International bird fair. 

Niall Hatch: That, that's absolutely right. And it's a species that's very much associated with Rutland.

And it is a very good county for wildlife. So obviously it's lacking any kind of seabirds, but it does have this wonderful big reservoir of Rutland water, which is is home to all sorts of different wildlife. They are often quite rare birds. I saw hobbies there near the river. Near the site, for example, that this great partridge and ran near the [00:03:00] car parking areas, all this kind of stuff.

So it really is fantastic for birds in its own right. but you know, maybe that's one of the reasons why it was chosen in the first place, but it's really become, you know, something that's gone beyond even that it's just become a fixture in the global calendar and it's, it's kickstarted a whole lot of similar initiatives elsewhere in the world.

But, this was the first on this kind of massive scale and it's still, it's still going strong. I'm delighted to say. And when I was there, of course, one of the main reasons I was there this year, actually, was I was giving a talk on the Seabird Counts, Seabird Census that was done of Ireland and Britain and the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, recently.

So I was giving a presentation about seabird numbers there. So that's one of the great things about the Bird Fair. There's so many different talks and presentations they have in these lecture marquees. Each one of them is only 20 minutes long, which is brilliant as well, because when you go along to them, if it's, if it's not a good one or it's a bit boring or a bit dull, well, it's only 20 minutes.

No, no big deal. But if you particularly like it, 20 minutes whets your appetite, well, you can go to the stand of the speaker later on and chat to them more and have it like, you know, continue the discussion then. So I really, really like it from that point of view. So yeah, a bit nerve wracking doing it in front of a UK audience, but [00:04:00] it seemed to go well.

They understood my accent at least and there weren't too many tricky questions at the end either. 

Ricky Whelan: Totally. I mean, and people like, I mean, we did the, the birding culture episode with Niall Keogh way back, and for all the non birders, I would say it was, it took them by surprise, the, the lingo, the culture, the, the do's and the don'ts, all that sort of stuff, but I mean, if you don't know, you don't know, but the, the Global Bird Fair is kind of like the Glastonbury for birders.

It's, it's, it's really like a big thing. And It's the Mecca or whatever. And I mean, people may, may know some of the nature celebrities as such that come out of England and stuff, David Lindo, the urban birder, Chris Packham, people will know him from Springwatch, those sort of people would frequent it and often be there.

And of course, our own, our own Irish celebs from Sean Ronayne, who obviously has hit this sort of stratosphere in terms of awareness of birds and nature with his Birdsong documentary that's been [00:05:00] doing the rounds. And of, of course, Killian Mulroney, who is the Mulroney should I say, who is the celeb, bird artist in the world.

And, people flock from all directions to, to see that guy. 

Niall Hatch: It's amazing. I didn't bump into Killian at it this year, but I've seen him at it many times in the past. He's one of the most popular people at this. And birdwatchers in Ireland would be very familiar with Killian. You often bump into him in the field.

We have his field guide. Such a lovely down to earth guy. It's actually amazing to see the reaction of someone like the Global Bird Fair in Rutland. He is like a rock star. It's like Bono walking through there. I was there with my friend Stephen McAvoy a few years ago and we were just getting out of my car.

I always go over on the ferry with the car. And I was just about to pop in Changing my boots, I think it was at the time. And Killian saw me and Steve and he came over and said, Ah, Steve, Niall, how are you doing? And we're chatting to him for a bit. And we just saw there's this gaggle of people just sort of like standing around chatting to each other in sort of a semi circle in the distance, you know, maybe, maybe 20, 30 meters away.

And after Killian had gone, these awestruck people just walked over to us and said, Does he [00:06:00] know you? Like . No, it's, it's, and you, but it is, it is that kind of atmosphere. I mean, yeah, people, you know, one of the great things I love about it too is that you, you're never short of conversation topics. You could strike up a conversation that you're literally anybody you find yourself sitting beside or you bump into and you're the food court or anything like that.

'cause everybody there loves birds. You have an instant common ground from the very beginning. So there's no awkward conversations, no awkward pauses. Everyone loves birds. So it's a great place to go from that point of view too. Yeah. 

Ricky Whelan: And look, and to be fair, the man has illustrated the, basically the Bible of birdwatching, which is the Collins Bird Guide, which is the go to book for ID-ing birds from, you know, all over the world, really well, this part of the world, but yeah, amazing.

So, yeah, it is funny though, when we think about someone we are so familiar with being that sort of, you know, person outside of, of their context, I guess, but yeah, it's, it's, it's very funny. And the other thing, I mean, the last time I seen Killian was at the conference in UCC. We were out there.

The [00:07:00] Irish Ornithological Conference, and his teenage daughter was there with him, and she can't believe that her, her dad, who is obviously the least interesting guy in the world to her, the most boring dude, is actually famous as well. She's got her eyes constantly up to heaven if these people approach him looking for autographs and to sign their books and stuff, which, which is also hilarious to watch.

Niall Hatch: Oh, no, it is. It is. And it just shows like, you know, that within certain fields, you can have real celebrities who may not be known to the, to the, to the wider public. Although Killian certainly deserves to be very much so because he really is a phenomenal bird artist and, and an amazing bird watching skill.

But you do see that, yeah, that the bird fair, you had, yeah, people like Chris Packham and Simon King and TV personalities like that. Nick Baker is often there. You'll, you'll see these people around giving talks or, or signing books. There's so many authors there signing their books.

There's a wonderful art marquee. We have lots of artists actually showing their showing their work could be painting, could be sculptures, people have illustrated field guides, all of these things. So you know, you know, you don't have to be an expert in birds by any means to enjoy it. Even a passing interest, you will love the bird fair.

So I was I was really taken with it. [00:08:00] But at the end of the day, the great thing is that there's a lot of... this is an event that is there to raise awareness, but also raise an absolute fortune for conservation. And that's the important thing. It isn't just about you know, the pursuit of profit by the organizers.

It's about contributing and changing the world through buying land for for for bird conservation, supporting things like bird returns, fellow BirdLife partners in other countries and other great conservation initiatives. So it's raised a lot of money over the years. And so when I was at the bird fair this time, I, I wanted to, to make sure that in addition to doing my own talk, I wanted to do some things for this podcast.

So I thought I brought along my recording gear and I thought this is a great opportunity to get some interviews with some interesting people who I wouldn't normally get a chance to maybe talk to, or we wouldn't get them all in one place at one time to do it for a podcast. And so I figured, yeah, that'd be a good thing to do.

So I thought I'd kick it off by talking to Martin Harper, who's the Chief Executive of BirdLife International. Now, Birdwatch Ireland is the BirdLife International partner for the Republic of Ireland. We're one of almost, I think, 120 BirdLife partners around the planet, all [00:09:00] cooperating, collaborating, and sharing resources and information on birds.

And when I was there, I wanted to catch up with Martin to find out about this project, the importance of the bird fair really to the conservation world and to BirdLife International to see what it's done over the 35 years now that it's been in existence. And also to find out a bit more about the beneficiaries of this year's fundraising drive.

I suppose we'll, we'll, we'll kick off with that if that's all right. Ricky, let's go over to Martin. 

Martin, there's a long association between BirdLife International and the Global Bird Fair, including its previous iterations. How important is that connection? And what does it do for BirdLife as an organization?

Martin Harper: So I think probably three big things. The first thing it does, it raises an enormous amount of money for conservation around the world. So over the last 35 years, Bird Fair has raised over 40 million, when you add the other contributions to other conservation organizations, and that's helping BirdLife partners and BirdLife projects around the world.

And there's hardly any conservation projects around the world that haven't been touched and supported by BirdFair. by Bird Fair. So that's [00:10:00] the first thing. I think the second thing is that Bird Fair is a community and so it's just a wonderful event to catch up with old friends and to, you know, put the world to right.

And from our point of view, you know, it's BirdLife. We often have a lot of partners here. So obviously BirdWatch Ireland is here but there's eight other BirdLife partners. And so for us, it's a chance to really reconnect and find out how people are getting on in Malta and Cyprus and this year in Egypt, because our Egyptian partner is the beneficiary.

And I think the final thing is that it's an inspiration. So what we're trying to do all of us within the BirdLife community is to try and excite and inspire more people to get excited about birds because what we want around the world is a great big birding society. And because if they have a passion about birds, they're more likely to want to take action for it.

And that's how we get to tackle the nature and climate emergency. 

Niall Hatch: It really is very impressive to see there's so many people here all brought together by birds. I think a lot of people who aren't maybe in the ornithological community or are not birders or conservationists themselves would be surprised that you can actually motivate this huge number of people and different organizations [00:11:00] from all over the world to come.

It's a real melting pot. They're sharing knowledge, they're sharing information, they're sharing conservation techniques, sharing eco tourism tips, all of these things. That's important, isn't it? 

Martin Harper: It can be quite lonely sometimes if you're interested in nature and you're fighting a good fight to try and protect the place that you love.

And the wonderful thing when you come here is a sense of solidarity because there are actually thousands of people who care about the person you want. You're right. They want to share their enthusiasm. They want to share their knowledge. And I think everyone leaves with a bit of a, I don't know, a little bit more energy to go out and continue the fight because we all know on the front line of the nature and climate crisis there's a lot of work to do.

So you need that strength and in numbers and I think Bird Fair demonstrates that and that's why we come back every year. 

Niall Hatch: I've been coming back year after year. I really enjoy it. And there's always been a strong conservation ethos here at Bird Fair, which of course is in very large part thanks to BirdLife International and its work, and other partners and other groups as well.

But I'm definitely noticing in the presentations, there's more and more mention of conservation. It seems you, an organization or a holiday [00:12:00] company or a business like that, can't actually even operate now without addressing conservation, without having some aspect of that within their presentation, within their offering.

Martin Harper: Yeah, so I would agree. So any good organization, whether you're a tour company or you're selling binoculars, I think you increasingly now want to make sure that you're, you're actually doing good, putting back some of the resources that you get into conservation. And so I think there are standards we expect good eco tour companies to follow the standards we expect good optic companies to follow.

And part of our job as consumers is to try and encourage them to go further. Because We need to transform our economy fast to get ourselves out of this challenge we face in terms of the planetary crisis. And that means every part of our sector needs to change, whether, you know, all industrial practices, food practices, or indeed energy, they all need to shift.

And that includes bird tour companies as well. So it is great that they're embracing a different approach, making sure that the revenue they get gets back into conservation all around the world. 

Niall Hatch: In talking of revenue getting [00:13:00] back into conservation. Can you tell me a bit about the beneficiary of the fundraising here at the Bird Fair this year?

Martin Harper: Yes, so every year Bird Fair Identifies a BirdLife partner and projects which will benefit from the income that they raise and this year the beneficiary is our partner in Egypt, Nature Conservation, Egypt. We're supporting the creation of an observatory in Galala which is on the edge of the Red Sea.

It's a really important bottleneck for soaring birds as they travel up from Africa into Central Asia and across the Gulf. And so yeah, and we think it's a great symbol of the importance of connecting people across continents and, and to try and help with flyway conservation. And the wonderful thing about Nature Conservation Egypt is at the fair this week, they, just gave the most stunning presentation about how bird fair visitors are investing in their project, Galala Observatory, which will help raise the profile of incredibly threatened species like Egyptian vultures.

So hopefully we've raised a load of money and hopefully next year we'll hear about the success of the project [00:14:00] when it's been implemented on the ground. 

Niall Hatch: And just one final question for, for listeners in Ireland or further afield who've never been to the Bird Fair here in Rutland before and maybe want to dip their toe in the water.

What what would you recommend? Do you think they should come and if they do, what, what's your favourite thing here to do? 

Martin Harper: I think that if you come to Rutland in the middle of July, what you'll find depending on the weather is a load of marquees in a field and you think, well, why am I here? So I call it sort of the Glasto for birders.

But I think it's a bit more than that because actually you can create real friendships for life when you come here. And the thing that I think many people don't know is that this global bird fair has actually, catalyzed many other bird fairs around the world. So if you don't want to come to Rutland, the central England, you could go, for example, to Sao Paolo.

You could go to Argentina, you could go to Austria and have your own bird fair experience there. Because the thing that we're noticing around the world is just the growth and love and passion for nature happens. And bird fair is helping that. 

Ricky Whelan: Yeah, Martin is so articulate. He was the head of policy at the RSPB when I was, With them [00:15:00] way back in the day and even then I knew he was heading going places such an intelligent guy and just strategic guy and he's perfect for that role. But to hear about the the fundraising initiative and and the potential there of bird fair for that observation center or point in Egypt is, makes a lot of sense to me and it's great that these things, you know, shake, the bird fair can be a tool or a vehicle in shaking that sort of funding out.

Niall Hatch: Yeah, absolutely. And you heard that he mentioned there as well, just as you did about the, the bird watchers Glastonbury or Glasto as he put it. And that's something you're going to hear in most of these interviews. Everybody hits on that point because it really hits accurate. That's what, that is what it's like.

It has this festival atmosphere. There's so many different events, activities going on all around you. You'll hear, heard he mentioned there as well. Well, he just made passing reference there to ecotourism companies and the fact that there are holiday companies there as well. I know that could be a controversial, but when done right, it can it can raise money for conservation.

No, that's a topic that we're going to revisit hopefully in a future future podcast specifically. So if anyone's interested in what he had to say about that, [00:16:00] you're going to find out a lot more in due course about that. But I wanted to stay for the time being with the conservation theme. So you heard there from from Martin Harper, who Chief Executive of BirdLife International.

I wanted to speak to one of our fellow BirdLife partner organizations. So I had had a quick word there with a lady called Roula Trigou, who is my counterpart, the Head of Communications in the Hellenic Ornithological Society or BirdLife Greece. And Roula and I have known each other for years and it's always lovely to catch up with her at the Bird Fair.

We've worked, with them, with her organization on education projects over the years. Lots of, of collaboration around flyways and migration as well. And so I was keen to find out what her take on the bird fair is and what it means to, to a birdlife partner traveling from the Mediterranean and how they can raise awareness.

It's great to talk to one of the conservation organizations here. How important is bird fair to your conservation work in Greece. And what sort of message have you been giving to people while you're here? 

Roula Trigou: First of all, I have to say that Greeks love Irish people. We share a common culture, even if [00:17:00] we are so far away, we love your culture very much.

So it's of course, great seeing you every year as well as other birdlife partners. Being a birdlife organization and working in conservation is very important for us, participating in the bird fair because it's, you know, we're a family and it's like a family gathering every year. And also it's very important because you, you, you see people and organizations fighting for the same cause.

It's a, I mean, I think it's the best, the best place that you can see that birds connect our worlds. Because you can see people from all around the globe, seriously. It's amazing. And it's also for conservation. It's very good to promote our conservation projects. For us, as a BirdLife Greece, it's very important because This year, the flag species of the fair is the Egyptian vulture.

That it's a, one of the species that it's a very high priority for host for bird like Greece. We're working for the species more than 10 years. And this year we have a new couple because it's only five pairs left in the country. So it's for us, it's a, it's a [00:18:00] great opportunity this year. It is a great fair this year.

Niall Hatch: It really is. There's always a lovely atmosphere at this. And I think even more so this year, there's so many people here all for the, for the same reason, literally thousands of people who love birds and want there to be more birds. And I think that's the beauty of it. It's wonderful. 

Roula Trigou: It's amazing. It's a bird's watching Glastonbury.

It's really amazing. And if I mean those who are listening to us now, it's they should come here if they can. It's a, it's a, it's an amazing thing. It's all around birds. I mean whatever you can think of either conservation awareness environmental education, travel it's It's everything.

It's an amazing, it's an amazing celebration of BirdLife. 

Niall Hatch: And it's, you know, there's some very serious talks and conservation talks. There's all sorts of books and things for sale. But there's also a real fun element to this as well. There's lots of fun and games and quizzes. And I believe you want to share news of a very important success.

Roula Trigou: Yes, it's indeed. This year we won. My colleague Victoria Saravia, she won the the bird brain quiz, which is amazing [00:19:00] because it's the first time that the BirdLife organization is winning and that a woman is winning. So it's it's perfect. 

Niall Hatch: It's just such a lovely place to, to be and to spend time. People listening in Ireland might be familiar with the Bloom Festival that happens in the Phoenix Park each year, in which BirdWatch Ireland has a presence at.

This is kind of nearest equivalent I can think of. This is Bloom for birds. So people have heard the reference to Glastonbury there. It's similar to that as well. It's really amazing and remarkable that birds can unite people from all over the world in such a powerful way. It's so wonderful to see so many birdlife partners represented here as well.

Roula Trigou: I think that's the most powerful and most attractive element of birds. What do you think? I mean, that's, that's the best thing. Birds are everywhere. You can see the, from the tropics to the high altitudes and just near our places. Birds are amazing. Birds are brilliant. But it's it's amazing that, you know, like birds go everywhere, birders go everywhere.

So it's here is a celebration. It is great seeing friends. Because, I mean, Probably, if you ask someone what's the best thing for the, with the bird fair, it's seeing friends. It's like an annual [00:20:00] date with BirdLife and friends. 

Niall Hatch: I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for that. Just before we finish up, how can people find out more about the work of BirdLife Greece of Haas?

Roula Trigou: You can visit our website, which is ornithologiki. gr even through BirdLife, you can find all BirdLife partners. So you can visit the website join us. And even if you can volunteer, if you want to come to Greece, we have a lot of opportunities from people from abroad to volunteer to us, like the Adikithera Bird Observatory, which is great.

So we would love to have people from Ireland. 

Niall Hatch: I'm sure you'll have some takers there. I can't think of anything more fun to do with our holiday. So, so thank you so much for your time. And I hope the rest of the fair goes really well for you. 

Roula Trigou: Thank you very much. It's always great seeing you. 

Speaker: Her interview links well with Martin 

Ricky Whelan: in terms of the Egyptian observatory, because I mean, that's where the birds are heading straight out of that, that pinch point there, heading straight up into the Mediterranean via Greece and, and, and, and via Roula and her counterparts and. Colleagues and I mean, she made a shout out for volunteers.

I mean, who wouldn't want to go to Greece [00:21:00] and help with bird conservation? I mean, yeah, sign me up. 

Niall Hatch: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it sounds like paradise for people who are involved in this. I'm sure that she, she's done very well at the bird fair because it's exactly the right audience for this kind of message.

But it just shows how having the Birdlife Partnership Together they're sharing resources and information backing each other up. It is a lot of fun. 

 You're going across the pond now with your next conversation you have with Laura Kammermeier from the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology, which of course you were, you are a sort of intrinsically linked to it from, from your, from other lives, should we say, but it's, I mean, it's, it's great to see, I mean, from, from people from the Americas, I mean, tons of people from the Americas travel, and I mean, obviously, another heavy hitter there in terms of ornithology research is the Cornell Laboratory, so it's really a laboratory, which is really good that you got to speak to Laura.

Niall Hatch: Yes, it really was. She's a really, really nice person. Laura is really committed and dedicated. Really, really a great advocate for the world of ornithology and for data gathering and data sharing, which is what actually she was there to promote. [00:22:00] Cornell have quite a few initiatives that people can take part in.

Probably the one that's probably best known best known in Ireland at the moment is the Merlin Bird app. And so Laura's colleagues from Cornell have a special stand there all about Merlin and also eBird, which is one of its partner projects. And, and in the chat with her, Laura explains a bit about those.

But the main reason she was there is actually because she's the marketing manager of an initiative called Birds of the World which is one of the projects about gathering in one place information in a very digestible way about all of the bird species in the world. So the 11, 000 odd different species of bird in the world, it's all together in one website.

And so you could find anyone who's writing any kind of article or going birding in a country, anywhere, anything they want to know about, information will be there about that bird in great detail, but done in a very digestible and user friendly way. And one of the things I really like about it too, is it's been set up in such a way that People and ornithologists and birders and so on in in more privileged better off, more affluent parts of the world pay subscription, a very reasonable annual subscription fee to use this service.

So therefore [00:23:00] Cornell can offer it free of charge to conservationists and researchers and ornithologists in developing parts of the world, which I think is a really nice initiative. So I'm, I'm very happy to pay my annual subscription, knowing that I'm subsidizing conservation research work in other parts of the world where where birds are in trouble.

And so I'll hand over to Laura and, and and we'll hear, hear a little bit more about what they do. 

Now, regular listeners to the podcast will know that I'm a big fan of the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology. I think that you guys do great work. I've been a member myself for many years after having studied at Cornell.

Birds of the World is actually really revolutionary. As someone who likes to write and who writes scripts and articles and so on, I find it to be the most amazing resource. Can you tell us why? What exactly it is and why people should get involved with it. 

Laura Kammermeier: Absolutely. So you could think of it as a bird encyclopedia.

It contains, it's a scholarly online resource that contains a species account for every single bird in the world. So that's 11, 000 species accounts that our team, plus a worldwide team of editors are trying to maintain. So, and it's used by everybody who's interested in birds, everyone from the casual everyday [00:24:00] birder to understand the birds that are around them, to scientists who are using the data for research and to understand, you know, the, the various aspects of a bird's life history, the natural history of the birds.

Niall Hatch: I think that. Cornell are real world leaders in this and people will be familiar with with initiatives such as eBird with Merlin as well, the bird identification app, which has become a phenomenon in Ireland. It's really, really popular. I think that birds of the world really integrates really well into those products as well.

It's kind of like a seamless connection between them all, isn't it? 

Laura Kammermeier: Right, exactly. That, that was, we're, you know, I feel very gifted in that. The Cornell Lab has worked on these projects for so long that now we can start integrating the data. So, for example, in, I think it was 1929, we started the sound the wildlife sound recordings, right?

And that's been, that has grown into the Macaulay Library Media Library. So we have photographs, videos, and sound recordings of wildlife. Mostly birds, but a lot of other taxa as well, such as whales and, [00:25:00] and frogs. And then we also have the eBird database, which is just over 20 years old now. So we have really good data on the distribution and abundance of birds.

And that is of course, telling us where birds are and how they roam across the earth. So we've put the eBird database, the eBird data into range maps, and we bring in also the into these texts, into the scholarly texts, the, the media. So we've got just these fully featured. Totally integrated dynamic life history reports that can be quite long.

For example, in the case of the Golden Eagle, we know so much and so much has been published about the Golden Eagle, right? Because a lot of this information comes directly from the primary literature. So much has been published that Account itself was equaled 200 different pages of content, plus 700 different scientific references went into it.

And that's not unusual for several of our accounts. And some, for other species, not as [00:26:00] much is known. So in that case, we work with different scientists. We're developing relationships. Part of what we're doing here at Bird Fair is to develop relationships with scientists to help us get more information about their regional birds or any bird that they happen to be working on.

Niall Hatch: I think that that really shows why Bird Fair is so important for, for an initiative like this. There's no other opportunity to speak to so many experts in their field and to get that information. How have you been finding bird fairs? A lot of interest and how important is it? Do you think to birds of the world and to other Cornell initiatives?

Laura Kammermeier: Oh yeah. Bird fair is an amazing place to be. And I just personally, I it's one of, there's probably nowhere on the Earth, I'd love to be other than me, perhaps in the field. But this is really great to meet so many people that are interested in birds. And there are several people here that we've discussed, you know, that we've had discussions with that are interested in bringing their regional biology into a place that more people can access it.

Right. It's one of the things with Birds of the World is you [00:27:00] know, this started. As an English language journal and interestingly, very soon we're going to be, we're going to be releasing a Spanish language version of it as well, which is a great first step. And then we hope to be going into a you know, two, three, four more different languages and we'll just see how time, you know, how this develops over time.

But my point was that there's a lot of science that is, that is embedded in Spanish. Languages, journals in languages other than English. And we don't have access, right? Scientists at Cornell don't have access to that, for the most part. So these regional relationships with scientists from Egypt and Malaysia, South America all over, really helps us get more of that information and really bring the entire life history of a bird into one place, where it's just, you know, You know available for everyone else.

Niall Hatch: I'm myself a subscriber to Birds of the World. I'd highly recommend it. It's a subscription service [00:28:00] and there is a very, very reasonable annual fee for it in certain parts of the world. But I think the beauty of this model is that in many developing countries it is provided free to scientists and researchers and birders in those So they could, they can use it freely.

And it's subsidized by people in other countries like Ireland, like the UK, like the United States where people can afford to pay that bit extra and therefore help to promote it around the world. I think it's a beautiful way of doing it. 

Laura Kammermeier: It's very important that we get information from these other regions and if opening access to the material is what it takes to, to sort of develop the relationships and, and get more usage by people who are, don't have the means, but are doing really good local research projects, then this is.

This is the way we move forward. So yeah, it recently opened up throughout South America. Latin America is very close and I think Panama was our latest and throughout all of Africa and large parts of the Middle East. So yeah, that's that's a step one to to really [00:29:00] you know, getting more information in the platform It's changing all the time too.

I want to point out that you know, it originally was a Platform that included all the former HBW alive content, but to that we put in All of the content from Birds of North America, and those were really long, full accounts. So about 766 birds. We added to that the neotropical bird dataset, and then also the bird families of the world.

So not only can you get species accounts, but there are family account overviews as well. So four major volumes came into one to, to release in Birds of the World. But the advantage is that we're updating it all the time. So between, usually on a weekly basis, it's about between four and six different accounts that we're releasing.

And that means we have scientists all over who are, who are rewriting, revising the entire account. They're adding new media. That media that really reflects the bird in every stage of its life and [00:30:00] every, you know, kind of behavior and habitat. And we're also adding, we're updating the maps. So our point is to make it as useful and as relevant and as updated as we can.

And so Yeah. So that's, that's our goal here. And, and it's so it's not just sitting, sitting on the shelf waiting for you. Yeah. 

Niall Hatch: And finally, Laura if anyone's listening to this and wants to give Birds of the World a try, how can they do that? 

Laura Kammermeier: Oh, they can go to Birds of the world.org and click click subscribe.

And at that point you can get in, I think it costs about 38. I don't know how that would translate in Ireland, but about 38 pounds per year. And there's always some sort of discount that is available. Usually there's a 10 percent discount on the homepage, so do look for that. That's a good start. And yeah, if you have any questions, reach out to us at the, at the Contact Us bar, and I'd be happy to answer any more questions.

Ricky Whelan: I've, I've visited profiles of certain birds that have literally grown. In a week of me visiting if you know what I mean, so it's constantly [00:31:00] evolving, constantly growing it's data and it's it's reference points and and all that sort of stuff so it's it's a really formidable piece of work and it's great to hear Laura sort of I suppose describe it and sing its praises and and and its merits and the reasoning behind it rationale.

So, yeah, it's, it's, it's top stuff there. 

Niall Hatch: Well, we're checking out absolutely. And I'm a big supporter of the thing, the, the, the things that the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology do. It's yeah, it's really, really first class. So great to see them there and to catch up with some old friends, as you said, said earlier, I have a long association with Cornell, one of my favorite places.

So delighted to talk to them. Another person that I was really delighted to talk to is somebody who may be better known to, to regular listeners of this podcast. podcast it's Sean Ronayne, who is obviously the legendary Cobh-based wildlife sound recordist 

Ricky Whelan: And, and, and my current man crush.

Niall Hatch: Well, he did have a bit of a following. I have to say around the bird fair. All right. Yeah, you know, he's a certain aura about him, let's say, but a lot of people will will know Sean from the really successful documentary [00:32:00] that was on RTE recently and various screenings around the country called Bird Song about his quest to record all the sounds of all the all the bird species in Ireland.

I've just. Wonderful piece of filmmaking. Absolutely wonderful. And that was the main reason that Sean was at the, at the, the, the Bird Fair because he was there for the UK premiere of that wonderful documentary film. And he did a Q& A session after it. And it was a huge audience. It was really, really well attended.

And then the following day, he also did a wonderful presentation all about how his, his journey in Birdsong, how he got into it and all his background. his background in Catalonia, where he really got into into all bird sound recording, the challenges he faced. He's just such an engaging speaker, as you're going to hear, like how eloquent this guy is talking about wildlife.

And also he told me a bit more about some of his upcoming projects that are on the horizon as well. 

Sean, a lot of our listeners to the podcast will know you from various things, but particularly from birdsong , the documentary about you and your quest to record all of the bird species in Ireland.

That was on RTE and various festivals. [00:33:00] Here at the Global Bird Fair in Rutland, last night was the UK premiere of that wonderful documentary. And you did a Q& A session afterwards. How did it go and what are your thoughts on the bird fair? 

Sean Ronayne: Ah, it was amazing. So I was a little bit nervous because of the fact that this was the first time the film was shown outside Ireland.

The reason I was a little bit nervous was because I was, I was wondering would the messages translate to another country? But you know, the UK is facing very similar issues in terms of conservation and habitat loss as we do in Ireland. So, yeah, they, they, they definitely responded really well.

And the, the questions were, were really beautiful and the, the response was very warming. So yeah, it was it was great. It was great. 

Niall Hatch: I, I was sitting in the audience there and I could really feel this, this actual buzz going around. There's such a wonderful atmosphere there. I think people are really warm to you and to the whole concept.

And it's something really emotional and moving. Of course, here at the Bird Fair, one of the wonderful things here is that everybody here loves birds. So it's the perfect audience for a film like that. I know you love birds yourself. What, [00:34:00] what have you been thinking as you've been seeing the bird fair, that the fact that all of these people, all these thousands of people come together because of a shared love of birds.

Sean Ronayne: I remember, I remember actually going to a shop called Oryx in Barcelona, and I was like a kid in a candy store. It's like this amazing natural history shop. So it's like that multiplied by a hundred. It's like so many, so much artwork, so many amazing talks, and all of these familiar faces that, you know, It's kind of a strange thing when you see people that you know from Twitter only.

You feel like you know them, but here they are in person. Yeah, it's just a very great vibe, lovely community of people and so much to see and do here. 

Niall Hatch: I always find it hard not to spend too much money here because there's so many books, there's so many optics. Sound recording actually is becoming a big thing here as well.

I'm seeing more and more equipment on sale here. I must say, by the way, I feel very inadequate in front of you holding my sound recorder here, recording you. You know, given how good you are at that. If someone was interested though in getting started with sound recording, you don't actually have to spend a fortune, do you?

Sean Ronayne: Not at all. Not at all. My first sound recordings were made with my phone. [00:35:00] And, you know, modern phones now have amazing microphones. Like, the main thing is, is just to protect the, the microphone capsules from wind. And even, like, the likes of iPhone already have kind of wind protection built into them.

So you can use your phone you can get, if you do You know, think that you, you like it. You can invest a small amount of money. My first sound recorder was 90 euro. It was a second hand Olympus LS12 recorder I got on eBay. And I started sound recording with that on my balcony in Barcelona. I had it in a measuring jug.

And I used cling film and an elastic band to protect it from the wind and rain. And then if, if, if you think that it's something that you really enjoy, you can, you can step up then and get something more expensive, but you don't need to. 

Niall Hatch: I think that one of the things that has struck me most about you talking about your recordings is how much of it is actually looking rather than listening, because you have so many hours of recordings that you couldn't possibly listen to them all.

So you're actually looking on the, on, on a screen. Can you explain what that's about and how you can visually represent sound like that? 

Sean Ronayne: Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of my, so there were [00:36:00] two. broad brush approaches to my work. One is a, you know, a very hands on direct approach where I have microphones in my hand.

I'm looking and listening to the bird and I'm pointing the microphone at them. But then I have another method where I am not present. So I will place a microphone in an area where I anticipate a bird to be. Sometimes that microphone will be there for 48 hours. Sometimes it will be there for three years.

So I had two, you know, Permanent listening stations as I call them in Ireland during this project and they were recording mostly at night to monitor nocturnal migration but sometimes into the mornings every night of the year for three years. So you, you can't possibly listen to all that, it would take multiple lifetimes to listen to that.

So to do that, what you need to do is look at the visual representation of the sound. So this is a sonogram. And it's like It's like looking at a fingerprint. Each sonogram is unique to the unique call of a bird, and over time when you're, when you're skimming through these, the sounds are repeated, you know, by different [00:37:00] common species.

You see them again and again, and you learn these shapes, and that's, that's how I analyze the big data, the big sound data. 

Niall Hatch: Now, I know that you've lots of projects in the pipeline. One of the things that I'm, and some are already out, one thing that I'm particularly interested in, and I absolutely love, is the album that you've recorded.

And I've very generously some of the proceeds from that are going to support BirdWatch Ireland's conservation work, for which we're very grateful. Could you tell me a bit more about that project? 

Sean Ronayne: Yeah, yeah. These projects just sprung up as I went along. I couldn't help myself. And that project happened as a result of Kind of my boredom working in a desk.

So at one point in my career as an ornithologist, I, I found myself writing bird reports which defeated the whole point of me doing what I do. I, I studied ornithology because I love being outdoors in nature, and I didn't want to be there. I found myself really bored and I thought, wouldn't it be great if I could escape to nature and pretend that I was in nature to help myself write these boring reports?

And I, I wanted to immerse myself sonically. I also get distracted by [00:38:00] lyrics of music, so I couldn't listen to somebody singing or speaking when I was writing because I'd lose my train of thought. And I realized that these long form soundscapes, these, these Capturings of habitats that didn't exist in Ireland.

So I set about recording the different habitats, like the whole sound of that habitat, not just a single voice here or there, the whole sound of that, without road noise, plane noise, anthropogenic noise sources, human made noise in general. And that album was the result of that. It's called Wild Silence.

And I guess, if you don't understand the title, it sounds a bit ironic, but the silence actually refers to the lack of our noise, the lack of human noise, and then the wild is obviously the wilderness, these last remnants of nice habitats in Ireland. So yeah, it's a compilation of dawn choruses and unique Habitat stories through sound, essentially.

To listen to, to escape into nature when you can't be there in person for whatever reason in that, in that moment in time. 

Niall Hatch: And I understand it's made it into the Irish album charts. 

Sean Ronayne: The response has been crazy. [00:39:00] So like I, I released it on Bandcamp. Bandcamp is, is something similar to Spotify. But they're more, they're more generous to the artist, which is, which is why I released it there.

And it was in, I think it went up to number two for quite a while. You know, it's a U. S. based company, so it really surprised me. And I think they were surprised too because of the fact that they normally have albums with, you know, composed music, something created. So to have an album of their own, Pure field recordings where I didn't do anything.

I just captured and shared voices was a bit surprising to them But the film I think really projected Or soundscapes out there, you know, it really, really I guess it shows that people have a thirst for nature and a love for nature, and they want to hear these things, you know? So, it was really encouraging.

Niall Hatch: And also you have you have a book in the way, I understand. You're a busy, busy man. 

Sean Ronayne: I always wanted to write a book and I, and I had been, for many years, writing stories. Whenever I went on my sound recording adventures and [00:40:00] misadventures, I would write stories at the end of the day. And my plan was to eventually write a book and I didn't know how to go about it.

But after Tommy Tiernan's show, I was actually approached by three different book publishers. I was so happy. And I ended up yeah, I ended up going with Hachette. And it's, the book is called Nature Boy, which is essentially me. Reclaiming a nickname that my peers used to call me in class to tease me.

Nature Boy. And it's, it's, it's an autobiography about my journey through life with nature, through nature. Yeah, so it's due out in October the 10th. 

Niall Hatch: I, I can't wait to read it, Sean. It's, it's, it's going to be absolutely brilliant and I'm sure it's going to be a big seller at the Bird Fair in Rutland next year, where, where so many nature themed bird books do so well.

Just before we finish up, how can people find out more about your work, about Irish wildlife sounds and, and so on? How can they, they get in contact with your work or find out more about what you do? 

Sean Ronayne: Yeah, I, I think the easiest way now to, to find me is to just Google Irish wildlife sounds and that will give people links to my Instagram and my [00:41:00] Twitter, the website.

That's where most of the, Communication goes on and the sharing of the sounds go on. Or otherwise if you want to do it directly on Instagram, the tag is at Irish Wildlife Sounds and on Twitter it's at Sounds Irish. 

Ricky Whelan: Eh, what's next like for, for Sean? I mean everything he does is just great and I mean So niche in Ireland at a point, I mean, over in the UK, there will be various people doing that knock make recording and stuff.

But over here, he's certainly a serious nuance and it's just great to see him having such success over in the UK where, where it's all at. So yeah, more power to him and long may it last. 

Niall Hatch: It was, it was wonderful to experience because there was just this, this absolute buzz of electricity through the audience as they're watching the film.

And then when he was, he was doing the Q and A afterwards, it was just people looking with adoring eyes at him. Just how eloquent he is talking about birds, how passionate he is. He made such a strong case for conservation. He also gave a lovely plug to to birdwatch Ireland at the end of his at the end of his Q and A as well, which is really appreciated.

So. Very, very good [00:42:00] guy, Sean. I'm really, really delighted to catch up with him there. 

Ricky Whelan: Deadly. And your next contributor and the last one. Is, is, is someone that's very important in our game as conservationists is, is, is a photographer, Rachel Bigsby, and the, the importance for photography in getting our message across and inspiring people and even just the practicality of being able to identify birds in the field guides and all that sort of stuff.

I mean, we couldn't, conservationists couldn't survive without, photographers and photographers would have very little to, to photograph without conservationists. So, it's, it's, it's, it's a good marriage, but Great to and it's obviously a growing industry as well and and of course, I mean, we'll talk about ecotourism in a in a future episode, but There is a little bit of a clash sometimes when photographers might overstep the mark or even birders and and stuff But it's really good to see it being done in a sustainable way in a professional way by by really excellent professional people 

Niall Hatch: Oh, yeah.

Yes, there's a big photography aspect to the to the bird fair and obviously the displays of photographs [00:43:00] and there's people playing part in photo competitions. Also, there's loads of camera camera firms trying to flog you their gear, which is another important aspect of it, too. I mean, there are good deals out of there, too.

But also, there's photography What's very important there. It's around the ethics of photography. It's a very good place for people to learn best practices. Also for people who are getting started in in wildlife photography to learn some of the tricks of the trade and to take it from there. And certainly Rachel Bigsby, she's a, she's a very Great advocate for the joys of photography and of the natural world.

I definitely would recommend checking out her work. She's an extremely talented photographer, real rising star. She's making big names for herself and big name for herself in the UK. And people may have seen her as a, which is a TV presenter as well. She's been on the one show on BBC, for example she's been involved with.

BBC Nature programs on. It's great to have this this this young female voice for nature. I think in Britain. I think it's just it's just so so great. So just just listen, listen to the way she speaks about it. I'm so enthusiastic, so engaging on definitely check out her work. I'll hand you [00:44:00] over to Rachel now.

You're here obviously at the Bird Fair. It's a very important showcase for wildlife photographers. What are your thoughts? How have you been finding it so far? 

Rachel Bigsby: I think it's been a really wonderful atmosphere. And I think compared to the last few years, this could be my favourite bird fair yet.

It's been really nice to bump into familiar faces like yourself. And also, now I've started to work outside of the UK. Just to meet up with people again, like meeting in Spain, and even further afield, has been a joy. 

Niall Hatch: Now, you are here, obviously, at the Nikon stand. You're showing us some of the photographic gear that's here.

Now, you, obviously, you're a very accomplished photographer, and you specialize very much in seabirds, particularly. Tell me about some of your favorite seabirds. 

Rachel Bigsby: Okay, this is a tough one. My favorite seabirds certainly include the Northern Fulmar, That's a seabird that kick started my passion and my career that I have now, discovering it one day, realising that it's a relative of albatross, it just completely and utterly changed my world.

I love a northern gannet. I think there's nothing better than on a cold winter day at the beach, just seeing those little sparkling black and white gannets on the horizon, [00:45:00] and of course I love a razor bill because they're the best to photograph. Oh, what about arctic skua and arctic tern? That's an iconic sound call, a sound bite of the seabird summer for me.

Niall Hatch: I've noticed a lot of your work, a lot of it, it's, it's not just straightforward nature portraits, even though beautiful though they can be, you have a more abstract quality to your work. And you also use quite a lot of black and white, which I think for seabirds, particularly given that color palette, it works really well.

Rachel Bigsby: Yeah, it's really effective. I just love the natural artistry. So I always look for the natural artistry in the environment including the stories and the behaviors inside the seabirds and not going for a straightforward shot, but always pointing my lens in the right direction. wrong direction.

Technically, if we're following weather rules trying to do something different. And like you say, quite often just removing that destruction of color to pull to focus these amazing lines and symmetries and textures that we have in the seabirds. 

Niall Hatch: I was giving a presentation on the Friday here at the bird fair about seabird numbers across Britain and Ireland based on the most recent seabird census.

And the sad news is that it's not good news in most cases. Seabirds are declining in Britain and in Ireland and around the world. And we [00:46:00] sort of underestimate just the importance of our islands here for these Through mediums like photography how important is that, do you think, for maybe bringing attention to the plight of these seabirds, and how can it help to kickstart conservation?

Rachel Bigsby: I think photography is a really important storytelling tool, and it does have that power to connect global audiences to the forefront of, whether it's the avian flu crisis, like I documented, or just species that are on our doorstep. step. And that's how I came across our seabirds. I didn't know that we had puffins and gannets in the UK until I saw a photograph of them.

And now I'm able to do the same for someone else. And I find it time and time again, I live myself on the coast and there's a lovely little cafe that I like to visit. And I was wearing my binoculars one day and the lady behind the bar said, you know, what, what are you looking for today? And I said, Oh, looking at some gannets.

And she said, Oh, are they on the pond? And it's just that, Shocking disconnect from the birds that are all around us because we flock to Africa to see the big five and to go see gorillas and orangutans and we underestimate that we have amazing species on our doorstep and funnily [00:47:00] enough I was working with a production company a little while ago on a really nice program that's coming out but they were so desperate to figure out Film endangered species, so they've gone all the way to Borneo to do that when we have them right here on our doorstep, and I hope with David Attenborough's Wild Owls, it really did shed a light on the amazing animals we have all around the UK, and hopefully photography can continue to do the same thing.

Niall Hatch: Very well put. I think that's really important that we realize that the nature that we have here in these islands is amazing. Amazing. It's under such threat and we have such a responsibility to look after it. Now you gave your own presentation this morning here at the Bird Fair. What was that about?

How'd it go? 

Rachel Bigsby: It was called a Seabed Summer and it was just a quick 20 minute photographic journey of some of my favourite seabed images from pole to pole. It went really well. It was a 9. 30am start on a Sunday so I wasn't expecting a big turnout but I was surprised when people started coming through the door before 9am today.

Secure a seat. So it's always a nice confidence boost. Like I'm a self taught photographer. It's purely a passion, which I've somehow managed to hustle into a career now. And it's still really [00:48:00] blows my mind every single time people come along and listen to the talks. And the best part for me are the Q and A's afterwards.

And people come along and saying things just like, you know, I didn't know that I could photograph storm petrels in this way or something like this and encouraging people to. Think outside the box of these seabirds, especially the more overlooked ones, the ones that are in the shadow because of the puffin.

Niall Hatch: Yeah, the puffin, a great species. I think if it didn't exist, Birdwatcher would have to invent it. Great advertisement. If it's a gateway for, for, for people to get interested in seabirds, I think that's a great idea. Does its job. 

Rachel Bigsby: Good gateway puffin and then look at its cousins. 

Niall Hatch: Finally, Rachel, if people want to see more of your work and learn more about what you're doing, how can they, how can they do that?

Rachel Bigsby: Oh, thank you. So they can head to my website, that's www. rachelbigsby. com. I'm also on Instagram and YouTube at Rachel Bigsby. 

Ricky Whelan: Mean, I'm suffering serious post event FOMO now, hearing all of that and, and hearing, hearing about your experiences and all the fun you had. And so yeah, I mean, look, we could talk about it all day long and the different people you mentioned and all the rest, but [00:49:00] we better, we better bring it back to back to basics in terms of our vital piece which is the bird of the week.

And I think it's fitting given that the osprey is the emblem of bird fair that we, go with Osprey this week, if you're agreeable to that. 

Niall Hatch: Oh, 100%. And one of the highlights for me at the bird fair was that Osprey actually flying right overhead at the site. And they are nesting there, thanks to a very successful reintroduction campaign in that part of England.

And the bird has returned to Wales now as well, so it's doing well in those parts of Britain. Obviously, it came back naturally in Scotland. And Lough Garton in the Scottish Highlands was was The place became really famous for and not just for ospreys, but for the cause of conservation. It really showed what was possible back in the 1960s.

So it's a bird that I think is pretty dear to the hearts of conservationists in Britain and a bird that is now been returned to its rightful place in Irish skies as well. Thanks to what we hope will be a very successful reintroduction campaign with the National Parks and Wildlife Service and others.

It's been really exciting. 

Ricky Whelan: [00:50:00] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, ospreys I mean, as you've, you've pointed out, people have made the link, is that they're They like water bodies because they're fish eaters, so they're also known as, hear them called fish hawks, sea hawks, river hawks in the, in the States, stuff like that.

And they're very, very common in the States. I remember fondly, I brought I was asked to just give an American couple, there were birders who were doing a lecture in, in, in Offaly about for science week. And they wanted to see some of the local birds and I brought them to a place called Palace Lake just outside Tullamore.

And I absolute, my jaw hit the floor when an Osprey flew and grabbed the pike from the lake and flew off. And I was like, Oh my God. Whoa, guys, whoa, it's an Osprey, it's an Osprey. And they were too busy looking at the, the house sparrows on the bungalow behind because they were from Florida and they see them every other day.

It's basically like a starling to them in a sense. And they're everywhere in Florida. And, and, and so they just didn't, they didn't sort of see the, the joy of it at all, which is just hilarious. So but they're brilliant. And I mean, I, people might know the the, [00:51:00] of course the Seattle Seahawks, which are an NFL team.

Their emblem is the Osprey and stuff. So there is, I mean, the people are familiar with them, I guess. 

Niall Hatch: Yeah, it really is a very successful bird in global terms. It has one of the widest distributions of any, of any bird species on the planet. You find it all across the globe. You find them.

through the Americas, as you said, in the Caribbean, you find that through Africa, through Asia, in Australia very, very widespread. And interestingly, we just have this one species of osprey. There are different subspecies, but they all look incredibly similar. And I think the reason for that is it just, it's, it's so perfect at what it does.

It feels a niche that other birds don't exploit. You do have other fish eating birds of prey. Our white tailed eagle is a great example of that in North America, the bald eagle, they eat fish as well, but no bird of prey is quite so well spotted. Specialized to focus on fish as the osprey is it's, it's sort of a an ancient offshoot of the other bird of prey groups.

It's related to them, but it's in a, it's in a family of its own and has amazing adaptations. For example, it's, you know, we, we know that birds of prey have, have, have talons, hooked [00:52:00] claws for, for Well, those in the Osprey are particularly hooked and curved, almost like fish hooks. That's how they grab their slippery prey.

When they dive down into the water to catch it, I mean, they don't plunge completely into the water, they go feet first in. They grab the, grab the fish, and then they orient their feet. They're very flexible leg joints. So they can move it so that the fish is always pointing head first. So it's like a torpedo.

So it's more aerodynamic when they're carrying it through the air. They have to grip it really tight. So it's usually still alive at this stage, it's wriggling, and they take it, they take it to a perch to, to, to, to then dispatch it and to eat it. And they have this exceptionally fine hooked bill for actually removing some of the fish bones and for picking all the little bits of flesh off the, off the, the fish skeleton.

So they're very efficient predators in that, in that sense. And they're also very interesting in the way that they, in the way that they fly and they move. The flight action to me, it always looks like sort of like a cross between a buzzard and herring gull in the way that they fly. Has a soaring bird of prey type aspect, but a much more fluid, bendy wing beat than other birds of prey.

And they're very good at flying over water. So famously, as we [00:53:00] heard there with the case of this year, that the project in Egypt about raptor migration, most birds of prey like to cross if they're going on migration across water, they want to go through bottleneck areas like that part, that part of Egypt or like, like the Straits of Gibraltar between Europe and Africa, because over the, over the water, A lot of birds of prey don't like to fly because there's no thermals, and these columns of warm air don't rise over water, it's only over land.

Ospreys, however, don't need those. They're such strong flyers, they can fly directly over the open ocean for, for hundreds or even thousands of kilometers at a time. So their migration even the ones that have been reintroduced into Ireland, their migration down to Africa is often directly over the Atlantic, going down the African coast.

So it really is, you know, that, that's one of the reasons why it's been so hard to track them too, because you don't see them at these, at these migration watchpoints like you would with other species. It would be wonderful to To think that the species may be returning to Ireland. I mean, it has already been confirmed breeding in Northern Ireland, which is a, which is really wonderful to see.

And we know that many of the birds that we think in the Scottish population, maybe even the Scandinavian populations, are moving through [00:54:00] Ireland on migration. We seem to have quite a bit of suitable habitat in Ireland for that species. So given the reintroduction efforts that have been taking place around the south coast, I'm really hopeful that this species will now make a proper return to Ireland and maybe come a common site once again.

Ricky Whelan: Yeah. So I mean, they've been a focus of a reintroduction program. And part of that, I mean, for years they've been showing up. So people have been building platforms for them in suitable sort of wetland areas because they will, they will build their big nest of sticks on top of those platforms. And Rutland is, is well placed at that point.

You go to those hides and you look straight out on those nesting platforms and you can see straight into the nests. Which is wonderful and, I mean, the effort then, I mean, they weren't really making it happen themselves, a few failed attempts. And then all of a sudden the, the, the reintroduction campaign was triggered and all of a sudden then a, a pair actually managed to breed here.

So all at the same time, so in sync, so it bodes well for the reintroduction now that they literally finally took up the invite themselves after all those years of people trying sort of sporadic efforts. So it's it's it's [00:55:00] really wonderful and You know some places there might be conflict Because they are fish eaters, I mean, they like surface feeding fish, so, the likes of our trout and pike and stuff like that.

They don't, they obviously can't access the ones that are really deep. But the other thing I find amazes them is, if, in the act of hunting, they do end up in the soup, they can swim to the water's edge and find their way out and sort of dust themselves off and take flight again. And even in some cases, if they're not completely drenched, they can actually take off from the water.

Niall Hatch: Yes, that is quite an unusual feature because many birds, particularly birds of prey, which don't have great waterproofing in their feathers, if their feathers become waterlogged, they'll drown very quickly. And they're just not able to take off. But the osprey, they can do this sort of rowing motion to get back to the shore.

And it's quite comical when you see that. And then, yeah, they sort of shake themselves off a bit like a dog would, and they're able to fly again pretty quickly. So yeah, that's a very interesting adaptation that they have. It's just, it's just Such a cool bird. Very distinctive in appearance to in terms of the coloration.

They're basically very Mixtures of brown brown and white maybe [00:56:00] any brown above especially on the wings But in some ways you can almost think they were a bit like a goal below They're very pale below but they have this kind of like banded like I mask on the on the on the face a brown mask over their eyes and they Have a sort of slight little crest at the back of the head too.

Not like a crest like a waxwing they can raise and lower like that, but a bit of ruffled feathers at the back. I don't know what, maybe it's for display or something like that, but it does make them stand out quite a bit compared to other birds of prey. When you couple that then with these extremely curved talons and that extremely curved bill, they do look quite different from other birds of prey.

Ricky Whelan: Yeah, totally, totally. And some of them exhibit that sort of chest thing, like a bandana almost sort of tied around their neck. That bill that that black bill with a really really sort of delicate hook on the on the end of it for picking those bones and on a yellow eye, of course, in the adults, which is.

Which is quite distinctive as well. You often see folks in on, on, on good bird photography, you know, because they are, they're, they're quite something. Yeah. But I mean, they're more than welcome. I mean, to think that they're now gracing the skies with red kites, common cranes, [00:57:00] our buzzards, you know, all those golden eagles.

I mean, it's amazing really. Even going back two decades. I mean, we, we, we couldn't have made that list the same. 

Niall Hatch: No, absolutely. I know that there's a lot of talk in Ireland and elsewhere about the poor state of our natural environment and how nature and biodiversity are struggling. So I think it's important that we do celebrate these victories as well because it isn't all doom and gloom.

There is a lot of hope there. We do know that if, if we look after these species in the right way, they can thrive. And I think there is hope, real calls for optimism there, reintroduction campaigns have worked so well in other countries. The, the Osprey has returned to the skies of, of You heard their England and Wales, but many other European countries as well in other parts of the world, too.

So we know what works and what doesn't work. So based on that, that experience, I think it does bode very well for the future of the species in Ireland. We won't know fully now for a few years yet because it takes a couple of years before the birds are mature enough to migrate back to Ireland. Weirdly, they don't migrate back to Ireland in their first, you know, [00:58:00] for their first birthday, they fly down to Africa and they stay down there for two or three years and then return when it's time to nest.

So a little while yet before we know if the reintroduction has been completely successful. But I think there's every reason to believe it should be. 

Ricky Whelan: I mean, again, I would say if people people want to dip their toe into ecotourism and bird tourism, I mean, the place that I'm not really sure what way to go, I mean The ethical place to go is bird fair and actually meet the suppliers there and those companies that do that.

There's such a good choice and competition and good deals to be had there. So that would be a good place to try out a course. So any Niall before we sign off? Just, 

Niall Hatch: just to say, we've been talking there a lot about supporting conservation. Well, a great way to do that would be to support the birdlife international partner here in Ireland, which is us, Birdwatch Ireland, as you can join as a member. We have just launched a hen harrier appeal. So we're looking for, to raise funds for that too. So you can find full details at birdwatchireland. ie. We also find loads of details of events and activities you can take part in. So if you want to dip your toe in birdwatching go to one of our local branch events.

There's a 30 bird watch island branches all across Ireland that do events free [00:59:00] of charge for the general public to find full details again on our website. 

Ricky Whelan: Absolutely. So farewell, everyone until next time. In Your Nature podcast is supported by Laois, Offaly and Westmeath County Councils, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Heritage Council and is edited by Anne Marie Kelly.